Quote:

引用第13楼bella-bing于2011-12-08 14:40发表的  :

弱弱的问您一下哦，FUS 是什么啊？

你审厂的时候不是有一份审厂细则吗？那个就是。。。

Quote:

引用第13楼bella-bing于2011-12-08 14:40发表的  :

弱弱的问您一下哦，FUS 是什么啊？

I believe your FUS procedure only indicates AWM(R/C) is necessary, but during the factory audit, you can not provide the AWM labels to him, here, only show the UL file No. of the cable is not enough, and the AWM labels are also necessary, as you can not provide the AWM labels, then the UL auditor makes it easy, and directly ask you to provide the harness (UL764) labels.

so you can communicate with UL auditor and let him know you can provide AWM labels, in this case, you need to trace back to your harness suppliers and let your supplier ask its supplier to provide the AWM labels.


[ 此贴被Andy.Yang在2011-12-08 15:05重新编辑 ]

Quote:

引用第12楼Andy.Yang于2011-12-08 14:37发表的  :
So two options you can select:
1. Provide the AWM(UL758) labels to UL auditor, and let him know the cable is UL R/C, and has UL758 labels attached;
2. Provide the Wiring Harness(UL764) labels to UL auditor, and let him know the cable+connector is UL R/C, and has UL764 labels attached, but in this case, make sure that, the right harness lable is used, as per your description, if the cable is multiple strands, then Form N Harness labels should be used, not the Form 1-N.

Hopefully, it helps.

Thanks！ but we very unluky, Nothing any UL label on the product packaging, The Ethernet cable shoud be applicable to UL 758 standard.
I do not understand is whether can not provide wiring harness label if cabel and plug is same manufacturer?

Here, I'd like to show some experience about the UL factory inspection as below:
1. Before the introduction: I wanna show some vocabularies about the factory inspection:
UL:Underwriters Laboratories
FUS: Follow Up service
FUS procedure: Follow-up service procedure, which we normally call it the UL certificate, but actually, the first page of this procedure is the real UL certificate.
Field representative: UL factory auditor
Manufacturer representative: the factory representative who's the interface with the UL factory auditor
Type L: one type of the UL products, normally needs to buy labels directly from the UL , but not all
Type R:another type of the UL products

2. UL inspection frequency:
For type L: basically, it depends on the output of the factory, that means it depends on the quantity of the UL label which the manufacturer used.
For Type R: normally, four times a year, but for some special products, not four times, but at least one time per year is needed

3. Construction of the FUS procedure:
Most of the Fus procedures are composed as below:
1)Authorization page: that's the first page of the Fus procedure, which generally shows your factory has the right to use the UL mark on your products.
2)index page: which show the general information of the products which are authorized by UL that the UL mark can be applied.
2)Sec.Gen.: general description of your products, cause normally, there are many specified sections in your FUS procedure, so the Sec.Gen show some common information of those different sections.
3)Sec.X: X represents the detailed section of your FUS procedure, which show the detailed descrition of the products covered by this section, most of the critical components are described in this section
4)Fig. and Ill: figures and illustrations which can show some visual information of your products
5)Test reports: which can show the test items and test methods when your factory applies for the UL approval.

4. Audit areas:
Normally, UL field representive will check five areas:
1)production line: to see the specified products and whether there are products with the UL mark on the production line.At this time, the auditor will check the comformance of the components and the online tests, even including the calibration information of the equipments on the production line.
2)warehouse for the components: when some components can not be verified on the production line, the auditor will check the warehouse to reconfirm the comformance of the components, as well the auditor will check some wire&cable's label which also a very important check item.
3)warehouse for the final products: to check whether there are some products with the UL mark which are not authorized by UL
4)testing area: to verify some test  items which required by UL, including the equipments' calibration information
5) shipping area: to check if  your factory are shipping non-authorized products.

5. Documents for UL auditor use:
For type L products, the UL auditor will use the related product standards and your FUS procedure, for example, AWM wire, the UL auditor will use below documents:
1)UL758, UL1581 standards
2)FUS procedure: including the FUII, style page, facing page
For type R products, normally, the auditor only use the FUS procedure, cause they don't have enough time to know each product standards.

6. Why VN was issued:
Most of those cases are as follows:
1) nonconformance of critical components, including the raw material, model No. dimensions and etc
2) noncomformance of the test : including the wrong methods and unqualified calibration
3) noncomformance of the test results:
4) non-authorization use of the UL mark: apply the UL mark on the products which are not authorized by UL
5) nonconformance of the COC documents: can not provide the right traceability documents during the inspection
6) other special cases: such as the refuse of the inspection and etc...

7. How to resolve the VN:
Normally, there are three ways to solve the VN, see below:
1) Rework under the witness: if VN found, and the VN can be solved in the field, then rework these VN items under the auditor's witness, then ok
2) Marking remove: if VN found, and these VN items are not so easy to be resloved in a short time, and you still want to ship these products, then select to remove the UL marking , then ok
3) Hold shipment: similar with the item 2), and you are not so urgent to ship out the products, or these VN items needs to be evaluated by the UL CAS department, then select to hold shipment until further confirmation was finished. but remember, don't ship out these products without the UL's approval.

8. Other recommendation:
1) Don't ship out the products with the UL mark before the IPI(first inspection) was finished
2) Don't show you are so experienced before the UL auditor, even you are a real experienced guy
3) If possible, prepare some gifts, or cash for urgent cases
4) Show respects to the UL auditor, even they are rude but not break your bottom line...

Quote:

引用第15楼Andrew.Zhao于2011-12-08 14:44发表的  :

你审厂的时候不是有一份审厂细则吗？那个就是。。。

哦 ，有的，刚刚看到了，感谢您和Andy.Yang

不是很理解LZ说的由自己厂生产，然后由自己厂组装是什么意思。
如果LZ说的是你们公司购买UL的plug和UL的cable然后在你们公司组装，则不需要线束标签。
如果LZ公司从供应商直接购买组装好的网线，那么线束标签是必须的。

Quote:

引用第17楼bella-bing于2011-12-08 15:08发表的  :

Thanks！ but we very unluky, Nothing any UL label on the product packaging, The Ethernet cable shoud be applicable to UL 758 standard.
I do not understand is whether can not provide wiring harness label if cabel and plug is same manufacturer?

I assume the cable assembly(connector+cable) is used on your products, then if your products is approved by UL, the cable and/or cable assembly must be traced back to UL R/C, and this kind of cable and cable assembly belongs to UL type L category, so the UL auditor will ask you to provide the UL758 label or UL764 label to gurantee your products is Reconginzed by UL.

I know your concern, you may think you can provide the UL file No. of the connector and cable, then that can gurantee the cable assembly is UL recognized, but as what I mentioned above, all UL type L category products must attach the UL labels to support this kind of type L products has approved by UL, anyway, the UL file No is the prerequisite.

So if actually, there is no any UL labels, whatever UL785, or UL764, on the package of the cable assembly, then you must ask your supplier of the cable assembly to provide the UL764 labels( if your supplier is certified under UL764), or to provide the UL758 labels( if your supplier are not certified by UL under UL764).

Finally, make an explanation as below:
Cable: belongs to UL758 category, call it AWM(ZVLV2);
Cable + Connectors: belongs to UL764 category, call it Wiring harness(ZPMV2).

Hopefully, it clarifies....

Quote:

引用第21楼Andy.Yang于2011-12-08 15:24发表的  :

I assume the cable assembly(connector+cable) is used on your products, then if your products is approved by UL, the cable and/or cable assembly must be traced back to UL R/C, and this kind of cable and cable assembly belongs to UL type L category, so the UL auditor will ask you to provide the UL758 label or UL764 label to gurantee your products is Reconginzed by UL.

I know your concern, you may think you can provide the UL file No. of the connector and cable, then that can gurantee the cable assembly is UL recognized, but as what I mentioned above, all UL type L category products must attach the UL labels to support this kind of type L products has approved by UL, anyway, the UL file No is the prerequisite.

.......

Well, I can only communicate with vendors!
Thanks for you help

Quote:

引用第17楼bella-bing于2011-12-08 15:08发表的  :

Thanks！ but we very unluky, Nothing any UL label on the product packaging, The Ethernet cable shoud be applicable to UL 758 standard.
I do not understand is whether can not provide wiring harness label if cabel and plug is same manufacturer?

即使plug和cable来自同一个厂商也不可以。因为归根到底这是UL追溯性要求的内容。UL认证的AWM线，在买来的时候是一卷一卷的，上面会贴有UL的线材认证标签，你的FUS中应该就是要求使用AWM的线，但是由于你的线已经经过加工，在你们公司现场审核员无法看到这个标签，所以就要求组装网线的工厂要做线束认证，然后加贴线束标签，这样UL审核员见到线束标签就知道之前的cable和plug的认证已经经过确认，是可追溯的。

if the cable and the plug is built at the same factory, then you also have two options:
1. if your supplier is certified under ZPMV2(UL764), then you can directly as it to provide the UL764 labels in the future;
2. If your supplier is only certified under ZVLV2(UL758), then you need to ask it to provide the UL758 labels to you in the future, but here, you must communicate and confirm with UL auditor first for this case.

But don't be afraid of that, even VN was issued during the factory audit for this case, the VN is for the supplier, not for your factory, and your supplier will be fined or warned by UL, but remember, don't let it happen again, or your factory also will be fined by UL...

Quote:

引用第24楼Andy.Yang于2011-12-08 15:37发表的  :
if the cable and the plug is built at the same factory, then you also have two options:
1. if your supplier is certified under ZPMV2(UL764), then you can directly as it to provide the UL764 labels in the future;
2. If your supplier is only certified under ZVLV2(UL758), then you need to ask it to provide the UL758 labels to you in the future, but here, you must communicate and confirm with UL auditor first for this case.

But don't be afraid of that, even VN was issued during the factory audit for this case, the VN is for the supplier, not for your factory, and your supplier will be fined or warned by UL, but remember, don't let it happen again, or your factory also will be fined by UL...

As for the fine, I don't think your supplier will be fined. Only the final product manufacturer will be fined because it is the final product manufacturer's responsibility to request supplier to get wire harness approved by UL and use correct labels. And if your supplier is not a UL listed manufacturer, there's no chance for UL to fine it.

原来是这样啊。明白了。

Quote:

引用第25楼milighost于2011-12-08 15:55发表的  :

As for the fine, I don't think your supplier will be fined. Only the final product manufacturer will be fined because it is the final product manufacturer's responsibility to request supplier to get wire harness approved by UL and use correct labels. And if your supplier is not a UL listed manufacturer, there's no chance for UL to fine it.

For the punishment, you can commnicate with local UL inspection center, and if the VN at the end-product manufacturer is related with wire&cable label issues, this kind of VN will be transfered to the cable&wire supplier, as well, the cable&wire supplier will be warned or fined by UL, that's UL's policy, especially for wire and cable type L category products, I am very sure to tell you this point.

Anyway, if the VN has non-relationship with the wire and cable, then the end-product manufacturer will be fined or warned, that's another story.

Here, I only can say that one thing can not cover everything, you only can learn more through experience by yourself...

Quote:

引用第25楼milighost于2011-12-08 15:55发表的  :

I don't think your supplier will be fined. Only the final product manufacturer will be fined because it is the final product manufacturer's responsibility to request supplier to get wire harness approved by UL and use correct labels. And if your supplier is not a UL listed manufacturer, there's no chance for UL to fine it.

Correct your opinions as below:
1. Firstly, I don't fully agree with your opinions, Yep, the final/end product manufacturer can ask the cable and wire's supplier to attach the UL 764 or UL758 labels on its products, but there is a definite policy that, it's the responsibility of the wire&cable supplier to ship out its products with the UL labels attached, think it carefully, so that's why I mentioned in my e-mail that the VN for the label issues happened in the end products' manufacturer will be informed to the cable&wire suppliers;

2. Secondly, in the end products manufacturer's FUS procedure, normally, I believe only UL R/C AWM is necessary, so in this case, no need that the cable&wire assembly must be approved by UL under the UL764(wiring harness procedure), and if the manufacturer of the cable and wiring assembly can provide the labels which provided by its supplier to the end products' manufacturer, and transderred to be confirmed by UL auditor, that also can be accepted if the UL auditor is not a fool, because this also comply with the UL traceability Manual's requirements;

3. Thirdly, if the supplier is not a UL recognized, here, correct your points that "Listed", as to UL764 manufacturer only can be called UL recognized company, not listed, then in this case, we can trace to the wire&cable's supplier, not focus on the supplier of the wire&cable assembly, here, pls focus on the difference between the wire&cable and the wire&cable assembly, as we know, the poster has already told us that, the wire&cable is UL758 certified, just no UL label attached, so at this time, the VN will be transferred to the manufacturer of the cable&wire(UL758), not the manufacturer of the cable and wire assembly.

Finally, if the supplier of the cable& wire is not the UL R/C, then that's the responsibility of the end products' manufacturer, and in this case, that's totally another story...

And remind you here, only at the first time, this kind of VN can be ignored from the end products' manufacturer's side, but if this kind of VN recurred at the end products' supplier, that's also another story...

Hopefully, that can help you to really understand UL's policy for the wire and cable factories, and also can let you know don't jump a conclusion as your will, unless you really know it deeply...

如果你们卖给别人用，那就要。

如果你们自己做配套，就不需要